Posted by Mute on July 13, 1999 at 22:52:16:

In Reply to: Re: Personally, i think that... posted by maz on July 12, 1999 at 21:20:00:

a different scene i've been in for years would
treat ripping along these lines:

1) find out who it is
2) make it public
3) find out contact information for the person
phone #, address, etc,.. whatever available
but at the same time, keeping it legal, if the
number is unlisted, then don't list it, etc,..
list his real name and his email address or something

do all this on one website, and have a list with
rippers on it, that just grows and grows.
Once you are on the list, you can never get off of it.

That'd work

: > ...some kind of organisation IS needed.

: Agree.

: > But it feels like it would kill a part of the scene feeling. Am I wrong?

: Nope, I don't think so. But changed facts require reactions, you can't ignore them, this won't save the scene feeling either.

: > For me, tracking has never been 100% serious. I've made it for fun only.

: Sure, but this doesn't mean it is not serious.

: > And now, when my group has a recording contract, we are using synthesizers and sequensers more and more.

: And this is more serious just because you use some hardware instead of software?

: > I've had my songs ripped, more than once, so I know the feeling. It feels terrible.

: So why not let the lamers get away with it?

: > But in 99% of the ripping cases I've seen, the ripper has quietly left the scene with an apology and a promise not to come back...

: I discussed that with MisterX in private mail, I made the same experiences, a simple text is absolutely enough in 99% of the cases, most fakers are pretty shocked that their lameness has been detected and brought to the public. A ripper wants to gain publicity and respect in the scene (or amongst his friends) with the ripped song, so if the result is the opposite, he will never do that again.

: > Tracking is for fun, if you want it to be serious, just join an ordinary copyright organisation.

: This is where I heavily disagree. Tracking can be fun as well as using a MIDI sequencer and hardware and guitars and drums can be fun. I'm pretty tired of hearing this simple black-white stuff over and over again. There are enough people who use trackers AND midi equipment. This is called "open minded".

: > In Sweden we have STIM, in Norway TONO.

: Yes, and there's nothing in between? ALL friends with bands I know play in between and are not member of those organisations. They just have fun making music but still don't want to be ripped.
: I think it really destroys the tracking scene, if there is no space for people who produce professional quality and could get a contract with a record label easily, but DON'T WANT THAT. They just love the it to have their own homepage/ftp where all people can download their songs.

: > They will protect your music worldwide, and you'll get money if it is used in any way.

: And you pay money for every produced CD (which more than doubles the price, very cool) and once you joined you can't release a CD outside of this license (at least here in germany with GEMA). This is cool? I don't think so.
: This scheme is completely useless for people who just want to produce some CDRs for friends. But I'm sure those guys don't like the idea that somebody else sells their music on

: > I am a member of STIM here in sweden, I know it works. I have tracked songs registered there, and if Dj Carbon would have stolen any of them and sold it, I would have had all legal rights to sue him. I still don't know if i would have done that though,

: Even not if he offers your music for sale and already sold CDs and got money?
: Trackers don't like those kind of authorities I think, they rather have their own, with people they know and respect. At least that's how I understand the tracker-scene.
: Btw, question, do those organisations protect your songs internationally?

: > since the music is gone and he know he's hated. He can't feel good, he must feel like a real looser

: That should be one of the goals of ICOMM, to make ripping people feel like real loosers with a standard text, without re-inventing it over and over again.

: > (which he actually is) and that is enough for me. Comments?

: I think ICOMM shouldn't be a competitor to those professional (C)-protection organisations, ICOMM should be a fast and easy and semi-automated way to kickban rippers with some evil texts and really bad publicity in the first place. This wouldn't cost any money either. Imho this would be enough.